Politics, bashing, flaming, and baiting

[Resistance is Futile]

I see we have a number of new members, but they (some) seem to be more interested in politics, than radios.
Therefore I offer this suggestion, if you must continue and you start pointing fingers, and berating I think you are in the wrong forum.

Heres a link that may suit your penchant for that type of dialogue.
CLICK HERE

I had to edit poll, as I had conflicting answers. I'm trying to get a consensus for Moderation Involvment.
I wanted to change because I had invertantly left multiple choice open. So lets start again.

[NTW138]

I think it's better having A no Politics rule here.
It's easier to respect a forums defined policy than get mixed messages.
I joined this forum because someone posted in another forum we can speak some politics here.
But with most political posts some other Elements are sure to follow
I totally Understand why it might be a good idea to ban the topic.

[tube radio]

The reason I joined this forum is to discuss radios and related equiptment, not politics or religion.

Lee

[Ron Pond]

I thought, perhaps mistakenly, that a gathering of intelligent people here could discuss radios AND politics in a civilized and courteous manner, and if there were indiscretions, they could be judiciously treated.

I came here to get away from the rigidity of the ARF , with its over-modification and overbearing political correctness, which didn't exist when that site opened many years ago.

I like discussions on many subjects, radio and politics being only two of them and provided I do not denigrate, slander or defame anyone here, I really don't see what all the fuss is about.

If you do not like discussing or reading politically based threads, do not read the thread.
A simple solution could possibly to be a "warning" of sorts from contributors, stating that the following thread may become political in nature, and gently suggesting to the more sensitive among us to tread warily when reading it.

I just hope this forum does not follow the ARF down the PC/censorship track and drive some very knowledgeable and well respected people away.

Ron.

[Resistance is Futile]

It may become monitored (for which it has, unbeknownst to some, I try to be here every day) for just the reasons stated, starting to bait, flame etc. but if on the other hand it were to continue as a intelligent, respectful, fact based dialog, then there would be no need for that.

Childish attitudes and mind games are prevalent in many forums. But this forum is for adults and doesn't need to become a general forum, It's a Radio Forum after all. I am just trying to be democratic and feel out the majority opinion.

I can see why Allen on His forum needed to curtail politics and religion, as most of it is opinion and doesn't solve any issues.

This forum is based on Help and Experience and knowledge for others and from others. Some persons have been banned from the other forum as a results of feelings being hurt. Now sometimes people get their feelings hurt when there was no intent to do so. I understand that, some people are brisk in there answers, and even those reading may take offense at the way a posting is presented, or lack of grammar or spelling. Yes it is nice to read correct grammar and proper syntax, but someone may have not had the best in education as far as English skills are concerned. The same way goes for upbringing, related to interpersonal communication skills. Some interrupt others, and cutoff others, and as being all knowledgeable and are not willing to apologize when wrong.

Some don't know the first thing about analyzing problems or how to solve issues. Thats where this forum comes into play. To assist the less experience and to make radios and its skills in repair and gaining electronics knowledge fun, not a burden.

Your comments are welcome.

[tpaairman]

Here's my take on this. Oldsmobileman started this forum board because he getting fed up with ARF. And I know that quite a few members over there are also tired of Alan's crap. I know it's Alan's board (ARF) but damn - Obama BAMMMM! POlITICAL COMMENT - THREAD IS LOCKED - YOU'VE BEEN WARNED.

We just need to have a simple rule of not bashing each other. And yes, this type of thing does work. I also am on another forum for MINI Coopers (www.sunshineminis.org) and there are no rules against political comments. I have seen the moderators pipe up and just give a friendly reminder to play nice, but the comments are not blocked. And the members tend to get along.

On ARF Alan is complaining that he and the Mods are spending too much time having to moderate, but yet it's things as simple as you can put @$$. Or even A--. That's a bit over the top.

I do agree that if all you do is post political stuff, then you are in the wrong forums. But I don't think we need the level of baby sitting that ARF has.

[Ron Pond]

With regard to the ARF moderators, it is more their political leanings than anything else that helps determine their decision to lock the "offending" threads.

Most ARF moderators are leftist in their personal ideologies, which if fine, but they seem to be utterly intolerant to anything conservative and use their position to forcibly remind us. I include the Administrator in this observation.

It seems fine to denigrate and defame other organizations, as happened recently in a thread that had as its beginning, a simple and inoffensive question asking whether any ARF members were also members of Mensa. There followed many nasty and in my opinion jealously envious comments regarding Mensa members, without as much as a single comment or warning from the Admin or moderators. They obviously thought that some of the pathetically childish comments in the thread were funny.

You also have individuals on ARF who make remarks about "shooting the heads off Krauts", in one thread with absolute impunity, but make one innocent remark about the Government ( especially the present one ) and you're in trouble.

Don't let this forum go that way.....we are surely grown up enough here to handle any potential problems that may arise if non radio discussion here involves politics from time to time.

As for the political sites that have been suggested by some here that we visit, they are the very places that attract the more extreme among us and these are the ones I avoid.

Incidentally, contrary to what some may believe, I can and do talk about radios when the topic is interesting and after 35 years in the electronics game, I think I can hold my own in that field with other like minded people here.

Ron.

[Bill Cahill]

I don't agree. While I'm middle of the road left wing, I happen to know several mods at ARF are right wing.
We are merely trying to do Alan's wishes.

As far as politics go here, yes, I'm really against it, but, if the majority rules, I'm not going to ban it. However, from the very beginning, it has always been stated NO Bashing of any sort is allowed.
Oldsmobile man stated that, and, I state that...
The rules here are simple.
Act as a grown up is expected to act, that's fine.
But, no bashing, cussing, twisting of words to try to hide a bash, etc...
Most of the posts here so far have been civil.
By the way, Oldsmobile man made this forum originally to help us on our forum fix whenever ARF went down.
In time, this forum happily got more popular, and, it was decided to keep this site up.
In fact, recently, Oldsmobile man updated this forum so it has more server space with the company that owns the server.
However, it is still meant primarily as a radio related forum, as the name infers.
Bill Cahill

[Resistance is Futile]

And I'm a Conservative, but Gosh I voted for Jimmy Carter. I look at the Man, not whether He's left, right, or wrong! LOL
I'm just disappointed that on the Clubhouse not more is being discussed than politics.

[bobwilson1977]

I'm all for good, constructive discussion about anything in general, and that includes political discussion. But I'm not sure how that would happen because in my opinion, most people are pretty iron-clad in regards to whatever ideology they follow, and as such tends to mean any article or subject that has been painted as either liberal or conservative is either 100% rejected or accepted by either side depending on what side it resides on.

In general I feel that both parties have developed into sub-cultural societies independent of politics. This has only been amplified by successful conservative and liberal media outlets. Most of what I hear or read in regards to opinion from people these days has been cultivated by whatever media outlets they prescribe to. As a result I seldom see originality or flexibility.

The result tends to divide and split people into camps. I know because many a forum I'm on- regardless of subject- has seen a fair share of intense, angry political shouting matches.

So if political debates are to continue on the forum, my request would be that for those who proceed with it, they need to realize that not everyone agrees with what you say and if you think you're going to change someone's mind on any given subject, then you're only fooling yourself. Keep that in mind and perhaps things will go smoothly.

[Timaaay!]

I don't agree with the premise that most people are a bunch of sheep, lead by which media outlet they happen to watch. I have traditional values, don't believe in the death penalty, support the 2nd amendment, don't believe the Feds should regulate abortion, I am for lower taxes and smaller government. What does that make me? I voted for Reagan (twice), Bush, Clinton (twice), and W.
To say "any article or subject that has been painted as either liberal or conservative is either 100% rejected or accepted by either side depending on what side it resides on." couldn't be further from the truth, for me at least. I have voted for Democrats as well as republicans for Gov., mayor, and president. I strongly believe the best candidate deserves the job. I watch shows and news on Fox News, CNN, CNBC, *MSNBC and occasionally network news. I don't know which group I fit into. As far as political affiliation- I'm a registered Independent.
I believe dialogue, debate, and intelligent points of view on any subject, weather it be radio or political can be productive and persuasive. Just the simple fact that we CAN discuss political issues and dissent, is a major factor which makes this country great. Perhaps we take it for granted, but there are many countries where you can't. Lives were lost to afford me the right to say what I feel in my heart. I love my country and the freedom we all enjoy. I vote "YES" as long as folks are tolerant of each other and personal attacks are not tolerated. JMO

* I am not currently watching MSNBC because of the horrid personal attacks and hate towards anyone involved in the recent Tea Parties. I have never seen more horrific, hateful attacks on a group of people from a media outlet in my life and hope I never do again.

[Resistance is Futile]

Homeland Security is Labeling any one thats a right-winger or returning soldier, or Grandmas who demonstrate against abortions Or Pastors as potential Terrorists. Thats calling those of that description a problem for Peace. Now thats real discrimination by and against some of its own citizens, by labeling them as potential terrorists, and uses the example of McViea (SP?) to infer and intimidate upright citizens that don't agree with our Government's Liberal agenda. Shades of Nazism.

[bobwilson1977]

Let's try and keep some of the extreme language down, if you don't mind.

Anyway, I agree with you to an extent Timmay. The reality is that perhaps the vast bulk of people out there are more like political moderates. I'd probably throw myself into that area as well. Whenever a new President comes along I generally try to give them a chance before passing judgment. I did the same with George W and was ok with him until around mid 2002.

The problem is that moderates seldom have their voices heard. Instead, what gets heard are the extreme sides like Rush Limbaugh and Al Gore, who become figurative representatives of their respective sides. Then there's the people who follow these people blindly, who refuse to even consider alternatives and make their agendas based around upholding ideology.

The truth is that such separation is bad for the country. Look at world history and see what happens when people galvanize themselves into groups. They tend to strengthen their resolve until there remains no room for dialogue. As I see what's happening in Washington, during the last several years, if Democrats support an idea, Republicans always disapprove, and vise versa. Its so completely predictable. It also accomplishes nothing and assures that whenever the opposing party gains power again, whatever progress the former party has made will be scrapped.

What seems to have happened is that people have overly simplified their political views down to a few, issues. These issues include:

1: Guns
2: Taxation
3: Abortion
4: Religion and its place or lack of in politics
5: Gay rights
6: The environment

Now, stepping forward and speaking my own personal political opinion, More than half of these issues are tied strictly to religious morality. That to me is a problem. As Americans we have the right to worship whoever we want. Keeping religion separate from government was probably the single most important part of the Constitution. Yet somehow there seems to be a pressing movement- admittedly from the right- to make it as part of government policy, and that in my opinion is a problem. It is a problem to tie government affairs and actions to something that is unseen. I have no problem with religion and am spiritual myself. But it has no place in government, and if it were to become so, I would likely consider leaving the country. Most Western countries long ago left religion alone for religion's sake and have a strict separation from it. Yet the US is still somehow dealing with it as a real issue and there are many who are still vehemently denying that religion doesn't have a place in government. In my opinion, having religion have any part of political governance means falling scientific and economic competence, and that is precisely what is not needed in a modern economy. That is my one strong political stance.

But ultimately, it would help if people would look at politics with a more broad perspective versus a narrow sighted one. There are so many issues that people universally agree on. Above all, government is supposed to make the lives of people better. It does work when used properly. Despite all that I have said, I still have great faith in the US. This past election is evidence of that. Regardless of what you believe, the fact that we could go from a President with such drastically different ideas and character to one who is so different, and on top of that, not an older white guy for a change sends a clear message to the world that even though we are by and large a conservative country by Western standards, the democratic system does in fact work and what the people want does in fact come true if they use the system as it was intended.

Gettin' off my stump now!

[Bill Cahill]

Majority wins. Politics stay as long as there is NO bashing of any kind, from either side.
Also, please, no cussing, and, asterisks. Thanks.
Oh, my poor ears!
Bill Cahill

[music in a bottle]

Me and my wife are very liberal, and a few other forums, have really lashed out rather angrily at democrats and especially liberals because of our ideals, and I think that's wrong on a site dedicated to radio talk. Some of the finest people we know are liberals, and have done so much to help others by reaching outside themselves and their myopic little world, to give help to those who both need and appreciate it. Conservatives are great people too, we just don't know any of them!